Discussion about this post

User's avatar
Oliver Haythorne's avatar

I agree with a lot of this post, but I do have some quibbles.

'not a Martin Luther King Jr. whose prominence made him an obvious target'

Why not? This confuses me. King was also an activist with no elected position, but who held enormous prominence and informal influence. Kirk had millions of YouTube subscribers and literally billions of views. He was President of an influential activist organization which he also founded. I fail to see how this is significantly different.

'It is bad enough that our culture has come to “price in” that politicians will sometimes be targets of violence.'

I genuinely cannot think of a single political culture in history in which politicians have not been targeted with violence. I would go so far as to say it's a necessary fact of politics that the threat of violence lies under the surface at all times. This isn't a meaningful criticism of our culture, in which political violence is by historical standards very low.

'basically conducted himself respectfully towards respectful students, and was mostly disrespectful to disrespectful students.'

This is not incompatible with the critique that he wasn't really aiming at using debate to find the truth, but to get outrage and what I would call "vindication porn". Virtually all of his videos are framed through the lens of moral comeuppance - students are described as arrogant, rude, foolish, crazy, and so on. He is always positioned as the calm and rational dispenser of justice. It only takes watching his debates with better-equipped students (one thinks of the Cambridge Union debates) to see that virtually all of his debate methods were dishonest tactics to try and rile up an opponent or trick them into giving an unflattering soundbite. The heavy editing on his videos then removed a lot of context from those and just focussed on those soundbites. He was not really a debater so much as a content creator who used the aesthetic of debate.

'sought to persuade others to see things the same way'

Following from the last bit, I would disagree. I think it's pretty clear from his style that what he wanted was to rile up and encourage people who already agreed with him. Getting those who disagreed to concede or change views was not the goal.

'This makes sense only if you believe that being polarising and argumentatively combative is a form of living by the sword,'

Sarkar, to my understanding, was making the argument that he advocated for gun rights and political violence, and died by gunshot in a political assassination, not that debate merits death. You give a well-reasoned disagreement to that argument too, but I think it's worth mentioning that you slightly mischaracterize her here.

'It seems almost libellous to suggest that because Kirk favoured the Second Amendment, he was pro-murder'

I think the suggestion here is that he saw it as an acceptable trade-off in principle, which he was happy to encourage when it was directed towards his political enemies. I'm sure there's a snide POSIWID argument to be made here also.

I do also think it would have been worth making a comment about the degree to which anti-violence rhetoric is disproportionately left-wing in the US. When the Hortman family were murdered by a Republican extremist, the right ignored it or actively made jokes about it. Conspiracy theories were spread all over the place and the waters muddied. When Kirk was murdered, public figures on the left basically universally condemned it, and public figures on the right called for a violent crusade against leftists before the facts were even known. What do we do tactically with that rhetorical asymmetry? You're less interested in absolute principle than I am, so I think that's an interesting question to consider. After all, there are obvious "down the line" dangers with rhetorical asymmetry.

Expand full comment
1 more comment...

No posts